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13 September 2005

Interaction With "Why I Am Not A Christian" - Because Hell Is Unloving

In the previous blog I began an interaction with an essay by Charlotte Schnook called "Why I Am Not a Christian" in which she attempts to show that God, as depicted in the Bible, is not worthy of her worship. In the introduction, she stated that God violated her idea of a moral being. Now she attempts to show from actual Biblical texts what she means, beginning with the doctrine of Hell.

“Hell:

Hell, of course, is the mother of all of my problems with the bible. It is perhaps the most despicable and hideous of all of the Christian God’s crimes. Indeed, the cruelest of all concentration camps. (Certainly far worse than the ones created by the Nazis.) Described biblically as the “lake of fire”, “the place of eternal torment with weeping and gnashing of teeth” Jesus said in Mark 9:42-48 That it is better to commit suicide or self maiming then to be delivered unto hell. So, according to the bible I assume that all here can agree that there is an existence of hell, and that hell is the worst of all circumstance. Knowing this, let me indulge you as to why the existence of hell paints the Christian God as not fit for worshiping.”

I agree that hell is an awful place of punishment and that is has some tough logical problems, but not that it is “crime” committed by the Christian God. Interestingly, Jesus spoke more than any other Biblical person about hell and spoke of it more than He did Heaven, I think making it clear that it is important to try and comprehend why such a place might exist. I also do agree that the Bible clearly teaches that hell exists and that it “is the worst of all circumstance.” Now, let us move forward with Ms. Schnook’s reasoning as to why the existence of hell demotes God to a place unfit for worship.

“I am a moderately compassionate individual, rational, moral, and nurturing. Most of all I am a creator, a mother. I propose this to you, a human question. Can all here, Christian or atheist, safely say that if there is a God, he is our greatest thought magnified?”

Note carefully that Ms. Schnook is again beginning with herself in order to attempt to understand God rather than attempting to understand God as a different sort of being, whatever He might have in common with us. I would agree partly that this author is being rational, but along with Francis Schaeffer, I would say that any worldview that leaves God absent is ultimately irrational. Ms. Schnook is probably a moral person in terms of civil law, but she, like every other human is, according to the Bible, a sinner who has fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). This means that she and I are both totally immoral when we are compared to the holiness of God. Her question at the end of the paragraph is weird, but I really am trying to understand it. Is she saying that God is nothing but a mere thought? Or that God, if He exists, is greater than anything we can imagine? I think in light of her next paragraph, she means the latter interpretation.

“Whatever emotion we feel as human, being created in his image, God is infinitely more feeling? For he is the creator of all things created, I believe this concept is pretty safe to assume. With this being so, my love for my daughter must be a fraction of God’s love for his children. Speaking as a mother, I can safely say that if my child were to commit the greatest harm upon me tomorrow, I would never wish her harm. Why? Simply because she is my creation.”

I do agree here that God has the capacity to feel and know things in a much greater and stronger degree than we humans ever could. But it does not follow automatically from that assumption that God feels love alone. God has other emotions besides love that He feels as well. For example, the Bible repeats again and again that God is a God of perfect justice. “He loves righteousness and justice” (Ps. 33:5). He is not only a Father, but He is also a Judge. So His role over humanity is much different than Ms. Schnook’s role over her daughter. The analogy works a little bit, but breaks down very quickly. What we have here is an author who is using her own emotions and love for her daughter as a grounds for limiting what God can and cannot do, whereas we should limit our understanding of God to what He has revealed to us about Himself in Scripture and give Him enough respect to let Him speak for Himself.

“If my daughter were to maim me, slander me, etc. I would still love her, for my instinct and emotion demands of me to protect and care for her regardless of her actions, much like all rational beings (animal kingdom included). So now I pose the question, why then would God condemn us to hell for something as menial as lack of faith? If he is not infinitely more so loving then me, why would hell even exist? Any true loving being would never condemn his own children to everlasting torment, especially one that proclaims himself to having the very essence of forgiveness.”

Let me add a few comments. First, God does not consider all humans His children in the sense that Ms. Schnook considers her daughter to be her child. The Bible speaks for example of the enemies of God, who He created, yes, but who nevertheless are against Him in every way (Revelation 21:6-8 as an example). Then there are the Israelites of the Old Testament who were God’s children in a particular sense, chosen by Him. No matter what they did to Him as a nation, He continued to pour love upon them. He punished them, but only to draw them back to Him. This distinction is very important in our discussion, for it is not “his own children” that He ultimately condemns to hell, but His unrepentant enemies.

Second, Ms. Schnook here seems to believe that lack of faith is only a “menial” crime. This reveals a basic misunderstanding of the nature of God. God desires one thing above all other things – His own glory. He is most interested in His own fame and renown. “I am the Lord, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images” (Isaiah 42:8).

Many people think this is arrogant. I disagree, for He truly is everything He claims to be. But whatever it is, it is what God has shown us that He is most interested in – the worship of Himself. So God does all things to maximize His own glory. Faith maximizes the glory of God more than sight does. Therefore, He commands that we believe in Him when we cannot see Him and in the face of those who would mock us. This makes Him look good and He loves this. “But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into marvelous light” (I Peter 2:9).

So a lack of faith is no mere menial crime when it is committed against a perfect and holy God who justly demands His own praise. Rather it is an infinite crime against an infinite and perfectly just being.

With all do respect, it seems Ms. Schnook is trying to look down on God as if He is less than human and must bow to the opinions and dictates of man. Yet we must look upward to see God, for He is far above us. He is not only Father but Judge. The Bible makes it clear that we are the guilty ones, born into a state of transgression and guilt and from our birth we deserve the punishment of Hell – every human being. Our hearts are deceitfully wicked and there is none who seeks God (Romans 3). Therefore, the surprising thing is not that God sends people to hell, the surprising thing is that He actually allows some people to go to heaven. He is loving and merciful. “For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).

Next time, we will continue interacting with this article when Ms. Schnook brings up her problems with the idea that God is “just.” See you then.

8 Comments:

Dan Wilson said...

Could you please prove from Scripture that Jesus talked more about hell than heaven? Thanks.

29 January, 2006  
Anonymous said...

I could'nt agree more with Jason and the other comments concerning Ms.Schnooks' theory or whatever you call it.Her outlook is presented in a very hateful way,almost like she despises God.I have seen people and talked to people,who when they had "so much" to prove,it's because they had a traumatic experience as a child at a church,or at the hands of an adult that they once trusted.But God is so far beyond our understanding that we cannot comprehend "why","how",and "when" with Him.All we know as Christians is that it is in His hands,like the old childhood song,"He's got the whole world in His hands". It is saddening to me that people like Ms.Schnook,and others have a hard time accepting Jesus,the TRUTH that GOD exists,and to surrender to Him.Surrendering to God is actually the most freedom you can experience.To believe and know deep down that you don't have to worry,answer questions,figure things out,or know why,is very comforting.Anyone would love to have someone do it all for them.That is what Jesus wants for us, to let Him live through us,as Paul stated in Galations2:20.The hardest thing to do is surrender,but once you do it,you will realize and know deep down that God is the most trustworthy,loving[more than humans],and He's got you in His lap,as His child.How could anyone resist such on offer of Love? God does not love as humans,because HE CREATED LOVE.Yes,He created us,but He created us all the while knowing all the mistakes we would make,and if we were going to believe in Him or not.HE still loves us despite all that.Wow,what an awesome thing to know.Imagine that Ms.Schnook,God does love you,and wants you to come to Him,and show you how to love and live through you.My belief is that I cannot love without God.I cannot do anything apart from Him.Thanks.

16 March, 2006  
Anonymous said...

Hello,it's anonymous again.I wanted to add something to my previous comment today.Ms.Schnook must be a hurting person,and she really needs God.Anyone that full of themselves and so "sure"of her beliefs,does hurt.I'm sure my belief and that is God.But,her belief is in herself,not God.She worships herself,and that is sad.What if one day her daughter befriends a Christian,and she doesn't depend on mommy anymore?How is Ms.Schnook gonna feel then?What if her daughter becomes a Christian? She is so sure that she would never punish her own kid,no matter what they did to her.Well,I would like to see how she would react if her daughter chose God over her.That's something to think about here.

16 March, 2006  
Troy Kieser said...

"But God is so far beyond our understanding that we cannot comprehend "why","how",and "when" with Him.All we know as Christians is that it is in His hands,like the old childhood song,"He's got the whole world in His hands"."

i believe this is called the "ostrich syndrome"

"It is saddening to me that people like Ms.Schnook,and others have a hard time accepting Jesus,the TRUTH that GOD exists,and to surrender to Him."

why is this saddening to you? are we supposed to blindly accept and surrender to a god just because our ancestors did? aren't we allowed to think outside the box and raise valid questions?

"Surrendering to God is actually the most freedom you can experience.To believe and know deep down that you don't have to worry,"

don't most christians worry about going to hell or loved ones going to hell?

"answer questions,"

so you don't intend on answering miss schnook's questions, even if you feel sad for her?

"figure things out,"

not even gonna comment on this one

"or know why,is very comforting."

its comforting to not know why God has allowed many atrocities to occur in the world, such as hurricane katrina or the AIDS epidemic in africa or issues like world peace?

"once you do it,you will realize and know deep down that God is the most trustworthy,loving[more than humans],and He's got you in His lap,as His child."

tell that to the midianites or the whole world before the great flood or the innocent young children of sodom and gomorrah. i could list them all but i would basically be quoting the entire old testament.

"How could anyone resist such on offer of Love?"

by not buying his sales pitch. fairly simply, actually.

"Yes,He created us,but He created us all the while knowing all the mistakes we would make,and if we were going to believe in Him or not.HE still loves us despite all that."

so that is why he created hell, so people that didn't believe in him can suffer eternally. of course, he does that to them because he loves them.

"Wow,what an awesome thing to know."

apparently

"Imagine that Ms.Schnook,God does love you,and wants you to come to Him,and show you how to love and live through you."

then god can help her clear up the doubts she has in her mind.

"My belief is that I cannot love without God."

try harder, i managed to do it and so has miss schnook.

"I cannot do anything apart from Him."

such as thinking rationally

23 May, 2006  
troy kieser said...

one last little quote for my anonymous friend:
The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. Nahum 1:2-6

this reeks of god's love

23 May, 2006  
kelly said...

It's your anonymous "friend" here.You did not have to be so harsh towards me.I was speaking from my heart,and I did not appreciate your tone.I am allowed to speak in this site about my beliefs.I am a firm believer in Jesus Christ,and will not be shaken in that belief from others comments.

27 May, 2006  
Anonymous said...

It's the height of stupidity (not to mention fallacious) to assume that "Ms.Schnook" must be suffering or hurting in order to write what she did or does. That's a common response by Christians to atheists/agnostics...the only possible/rational reason to disbelieve must be something wrong with the person.

Incidentally, the bloggers response to her essay doesn't even begin to delve into the realities underscored in her essay. It's a nice apologetic attempt...but it's nothing new and really only further substantiates the essay's finer points.

19 June, 2006  
Anonymous said...

Actually there is no reality in Ms.Schnook's article.And yes it is a common response from a Christian to assume there is something wrong .Of course there is,she needs God.Jesus came to heal the sick.

14 July, 2006  

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